18 Things We Learned From the Schiavo case:
1. Jeb Bush, George W. Bush, and Tom Delay are all world renowned
neurologists.
2. 22 successive court battles that all ended in exactly the same way
means there is something wrong with the courts, not the Schindler's case.
3. Michael Schiavo is after money which is why he turned down 1 million
dollars and 10 million dollars to sign over guardianship.
4. Congress and the State Legislature of Florida has nothing better to do than pry into the private medical affairs of others.
5. Pulling life support is bad in Florida when authorized by the legal
next-of-kin, but pulling life support is good in Texas when you run out of money and the mother pleads not to pull the plug on her baby.
6. Medical diagnoses are best performed by watching highly edited
videotape made by Randall Terry rather than in person by trained physicians.
7. Minimum wage making nursing assistants are more qualified to diagnose a persistent vegetative state than experienced neurologists.
8. Cerebral spinal fluid is a magical potion that can mimic the entire functions of a missing cerebral cortex.
9. 15 years in the same persistent state is not really enough time to
make an accurate diagnosis.
10. A feeding tube that infuses yellow nutritional goop is not really
"life support".
11. Jesus was wrong when he said that a man and woman should leave their parents and cleave only to each other.
12. Marriage is the most sacred of all unions, except when it isn't.
13. Interfering in a family's private tragedy is a great reason to cut short a vacation, but getting a memo that warns a known terrorist is
determined to strike inside the US is cause to relax and finish up some R&R.
14. Pro-lifers are really compassionate people, which is why they are hoping that Michael Schiavo dies a horrible, painful death.
15. The Supreme Court of the United States and the State Supreme Court
of Florida mean "Maybe" when they are saying "No!".
16. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia is a bleeding heart liberal.
17. 7 Supreme Court Justices were appointed by Republican Presidents, so it's obviously Clinton's fault.
18. A judge who makes rulings based on the law is obviously an atheist,
liberal, democratic activist even though he is a Conservative,
Republican, Southern Baptist.
Yep.
-The Oklahoma Hippy
Came to your site from the Daily Kos and I must say....good blog! And about this post in particular.....Too damn funny.....and too damn TRUE!
ReplyDeleteYou know what else we learned?
ReplyDeleteWe learned that it is OK to starve Terri in this case because people are starved "every day" in the same manner.
We have learned that if you call someone who disagrees names or say that they are a hypocrite that proves Terri deserved to be starved to death.
We have learned that their is no higher authority in our country than judges and they can ignore laws and the constitution at their whim and any utterance that proceeds from their mounth is "law" whether it agrees with written law or not.
We have learned that liberals think it's fine that unelected judges have the power rule over us and we the people must follow any edict they declare including an order to die.
We have learned that we have no representation in our government because any judge, even a county judge, can tell our congress to go screw themselves.
We have learned that we don't have the right to not be deprived of life , liberty or property without due process of law and a trial by a jury of our peers or the right of habeus corpus if we are innocent and helpless, only if we are a mass murderer.
We have learned that being starved to death is a painless preferrable way to die and when someone is starved to death "they have never looked more beautiful" even though we have seen pictures of victims that were starved in concentration camps that tell a much different, more grusome story.
We have learned that if the majority of Americans think it is OK to starve someone then that makes it OK.
We have learned that if a judge doesn't allow pictures to be taken of the victim as she starves to death then we feel much better about ourselves because if we don't see it, it is easier to pretend we haven't done something horrible.
We have learned that liberals call conservatives extreme and uncompassionate but believe it is kind to suck the brain from an infant that is fully born except for the technicality that it's head hasn't come the last three inches out of the birth canal.
We have learned that it is kind to starve a handicapped person solely because they can't defend themselves physically or verbally and your are an inbred, stupid, extreme, religious fanatic if you disagree.
We have learned that it is better to kill someone than give them therapy that might help them swallow food or talk because they might be inconvienent to those of us who have "a quality of life".
We have learned that it is better to do an autopsy on someone to determine the extent of their brain damage rather than do a pet scan on the person while they are alive because the findings might be inconvienent.
We have found when a brilliant free-thinking liberal's name calling non-arguments are torn to shreds and he is left defending the indefensable then he runs and won't continue the discussion.
Oh yeah, I forgot, we have learned that killing ones spouse or unborn child is a personal medical decision.
ReplyDeleteAnd we have learned that we can't trust "a minimum wage nurse" that only stands to gain the loss of their job over a medical expert being paid thousands of dollars to say what the husband and judge want them to say.
We have learned that judge Greer can be both judge a person and be their court appointed advocate at the same time and people like you see no conflict of interest in that.
And finally I have learned that liberals believe they are not ever going to become old and incapacitated and face the executioner. I guess when you believe you are god and can decide when others lives aren't worth living you probably don't have a sense of your own mentality.
Have you learned that your wife is going to law school and has the same belief system you do? I don't think I would sleep very soundly at night knowing I am only a car wreck away from not being able to speak if I were you.
Mr. Bennett --
ReplyDeleteWe've learned that you sure don't like it when other people may disagree with you.
We've learned that if you think someone's medical care should not be a public, national decision but rather a private decision of the person LEGALLY charged with that decision, you obviously want Terri to die. (In case you aren't good at subtle irony, that's sarcasm.)
We've learned that judicial activism is a HORRIBLE thing, unless it's judicial activism favoring your point of view.
We've learned that it's okay to generalize that a feeling on one specific instance means that obviously we favor just killing people who aren't convenient (again, hope you catch the sarcasm)
Do you really think I'm so "pro-death" that I walk up to random people and say "hey your son's in a wheelchair, that's inconvenient, you should kill him" or "hey you're pregnant, you really should have that thing aborted"? This false dichotomy that exists in the nation that if you aren't anti-abortion means you must be for it is just ridiculous.
We have learned that "we must preserve life" and for not doing that Michael Schiavo should suffer a long and horrible death.
We apparently haven't learned that the right to due process applies in ciminal cases where the state is directly depriving someone of life, liberty, or property.
We apparently haven't learned that no one on this blog to my knowledge ever claimed that starvation is a "preferrable" way to die. Rather, at least for myself and my husband, we have expressed our discomfort with the whole process but also our firm belief that a husband should make medical decisions for his wife and vice versa.
We have learned that polls govern politicians, who used Terri Schiavo until it appeared that they would be on the losing side of the "what do Americans think today" game.
We have learned that expoitation seems to win in this country at any cost.
We apparently haven't learned to allow private medical decisions to be just that -- private.
We have learned that if all else fails go for the gross out factor, because emotions are much easier to manipulate that reason. [BTW - I think late-term abortion should be illegal and agree with the decisions in the wake of Roe v. Wade regarding the point at which a state CAN permissably restrict abortions, which is currently at the point of viability, making legislation banning late-term abortion perfectly consitutional.]
We have learned that supporting a husband's decision in the care of his wife means we obviously "have it in for" a woman we've never met.
We've learned that obviously no one would ever themselves want to be taken off life support, but would rather live in a vegetative state for the rest of their lives. That must explain the boom in business for attorneys being asked to draft advance directives and living wills stating exactly to the contrary.
We've learned that apparently conservatives trust their party enough to say "hey this is only one instance, it won't be a precedent, there won't be any further intrusion on someone's private medical decisions," while constantly decrying the "slippery slope" in even the most minute changes gun control or other such laws.
We've learned that when you get called out for comparing someone to Nazis, you have to turn it around and act like we're the ones whose arguments were torn "to shreds." Get serious. You were unable to engage in a reasoned debate without slinging invectives and without a sound logical basis for your reasoning. I don't have a problem with most of the people who wanted to see Terri live. They were arguing out of true, deeply held convictions. I have a problem with politicians using an issue in such a hypocritical way. I have a problem with diagnosing someone through video tape. I have a problem with second-guessing 15 years of medical opinions and years of court decisions, but then not really doing anything that would truly save Terri. I don't begrudge people their own opinions.
We have learned apparently that "a minimum wage nurse" would obviously only be worried about her job and would NEVER seek the limelight or a book deal or exclusive interview that would bring in more money than that lost job.
BTW did you mean mortality or mentality in your second to last paragraph of your second post? Either way, I assure you that I have a sense of both. In fact, we've discussed this issue at length, and husband knows my wishes with regard to situations such as these, just as I know his. So neither of us is too scared about the possibility of a car wreck or any other disaster, because we love each other and have faith that the other will carry out our wishes.
What exactly were you getting at when you said I was going to law school and had the same beliefs as my husband? I'm pretty sure he knows that, but funnily enough we often have the same beliefs for different reasons. And one of our passions is having reasoned and intelligent conversations with each other about current topics of interest, quantum physics, or whatever the hell else we find interesting at the time. We both know each other better than anyone else in our lives, we know each others wishes, and we sleep VERY soundly at night.
The Hippy's Wife
The point is that your husband, who I was addressing, left comments on my blog defending the starvation of Terri. When he couldn't defend that he resorted to calling me names and trying to get me to admit I was a hypocrite.
ReplyDeleteSo I told him I would concede the point that I was a hypocrite and asked him how that made the starvation of Terri acceptable. Never heard another word out of him.
This post, to which I commented, was more of the same. Bush is a hypocrite, Delay is a hypocrite, etc. therefore that excuses Terri's death (I know he didn't say that but that is the implication)
I wasn't saying that this blog had said everything I addressed. I was showing these were the arguments presented by the proponents of Terri's death and was trying to show how silly and irrelevant they were.
I didn't say you encouraged people to kill their handicapped children, you projected that on me. However, the point that this is going to eventually lead there is valid. You said, "This false dichotomy that exists in the nation that if you aren't anti-abortion means you must be for it is just ridiculous." How is it rediculous? How can you be both for something and against it at the same time. What is the opposite of Anti?
As for your constitutional arguments are you trying to tell me that the founding fathers intended that only criminals should get due process? Doesn't the constitution provide that the first step depriving someone of life, liberty and property is in fact bringing criminal charges against them? If that doesn't happen the government certainly doesn't have the right to take a life. What crime did Terri commit and what was she charged with?
Are you saying a county judge has the power to ignore a congressional investigation and kill a witness? The thing is, judge Greer didn't give Michael the right to pull her feeding tube HE ORDERED the tube be removed. Are you saying he has the right to do that without due process? The rule of law is not judges edicts, the rule of law is that the legislature makes laws and judges are sworn to follow them. Are you saying that when congress orders federal judges to give a person a "De Novo" review of a case they can legally ignore it?
Just where have I advocated judicial activism for something I believe in?
I in no way believe that Michael should be killed in some horrible way and anyone that threatens him should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I fight for all peoples right to life and that was what I was trying to illustrate. If you and your husband were in the same boat I would fight for you.
You don't have a legal problem with Mr. Shaivo because he testified in his civil trial Terri wanted to live and he needed the money to care for her the rest of her life and then suddenly remembered she wanted to die after he got the money and hasn't spent one dime of it to care for her?
As for the "diagnosing through video tape" argument, the reason that happened is because the same judge that ordered her death ruled no one but his approved doctors could examine her. As one who is in law school you should know you can hire a medical expert that will testify to anything you want. A simple pet scan would have given us definate information on her brain function and would not leave it to anyone's opinion. Do you think it right for the judge to denigh this?
The paralells between the Nazi euthanasia movement and the euthanasia movement in this country are valid because they started at the same time by the same people using the same arguments and propaganda. The same organizations that were pushing it in this country in the 1920's are still at it today. They just renamed their organisations with a little more palitable names.
Lets say hypothetically you and your husband have discussed it and would like to be kept alive because stem cells or something might fix the problem in the future and you even put it in writing. Do you honestly think if judges that ignore congress want you dead that some piece of paper is going to save you?
BTW, RN's, like the ones that have testified to Terri's condition, are highly paid and are only one step lower in training than a doctor. You accuse me of "slinging invectives" but all your husbands arguments amount to is denigrating everyone that disagrees with him as some sort of lower class dummy. If it is anyone not using reasoning it is him.
ReplyDelete"We've learned that you sure don't like it when other people may disagree with you."
ReplyDeleteSo what? Who does?
"We've learned that if you think someone's medical care should not be a public, national decision but rather a private decision of the person LEGALLY charged with that decision, you obviously want Terri to die. (In case you aren't good at subtle irony, that's sarcasm.)"
Look- even if you are right about this- don't you worry about the precedent it sets? Don't you worry at all about yourself? What if it's your head on the chopping block?
"We've learned that judicial activism is a HORRIBLE thing, unless it's judicial activism favoring your point of view."
Nobody wants judicial activism, but we do think that too many aspects of this case were left unquestioned.
"We've learned that it's okay to generalize that a feeling on one specific instance means that obviously we favor just killing people who aren't convenient (again, hope you catch the sarcasm)
Do you really think I'm so "pro-death" that I walk up to random people and say "hey your son's in a wheelchair, that's inconvenient, you should kill him" or "hey you're pregnant, you really should have that thing aborted"? This false dichotomy that exists in the nation that if you aren't anti-abortion means you must be for it is just ridiculous."
No it's not. You don't think that way. But the next guy will. All it takes is for the respect for life to slip, little by little. I'm sure the average fellow in 1930's Germany wouldn't have thought that his support for Hitler would've ended up in the Holocaust. People rarely see the consequences of their philosophies.
I know slippery slope arguments are rarely taken seriously, but they should be. People do not tend to do the right thing- they tend to do whatever is easy for them to do- do you really think that, given the future possibily of the chance to select the traits of their children, the average couple will have the wisdom not to? Do you think that, if most people could know beforehand that their child was going to be born with Down's syndrome, that they wouldn't just abort it?
"We have learned that "we must preserve life" and for not doing that Michael Schiavo should suffer a long and horrible death."
Ok- so people aren't always the most rational, myself included. Again, so what? Because people say natsy things, this woman should die? I fail to see the connection.
"We apparently haven't learned that the right to due process applies in ciminal cases where the state is directly depriving someone of life, liberty, or property."
"We apparently haven't learned that no one on this blog to my knowledge ever claimed that starvation is a "preferrable" way to die. Rather, at least for myself and my husband, we have expressed our discomfort with the whole process but also our firm belief that a husband should make medical decisions for his wife and vice versa."
Now that's just wierd. You feel "discomfort" about starvation but think it's okay for Terri's husband? Gee, I feel "discomfort" with rape- so what? Since when has right and wrong been defined by how "discomforting" it makes us feel?
"We have learned that polls govern politicians, who used Terri Schiavo until it appeared that they would be on the losing side of the "what do Americans think today" game."
Again- so what? Because some politicians are dishonest- Terri deserves to die? Of course pols are scumbags- that- and I don't care if every man, woman and child in America thinks mercy killing is okay- right and wrong are never defined by how many people think one way or another.
"We have learned that expoitation seems to win in this country at any cost."
Again- even if the Republicans are "using" Terri- so what? She deserves to die because you don't like conservatives?
"We apparently haven't learned to allow private medical decisions to be just that -- private."
Murder is not a "private" act. Murder is by definition a public act. You cannot murder nobody- there has to be another person there to kill, therefore it is public.
"If all else fails go for the gross out factor, because emotions are much easier to manipulate that reason. [BTW - I think late-term abortion should be illegal and agree with the decisions in the wake of Roe v. Wade regarding the point at which a state CAN permissably restrict abortions, which is currently at the point of viability, making legislation banning late-term abortion perfectly consitutional.]"
They said the same thing about the abolitionsists, didn't they? That they were just portraying the graphic scenes of slavery to gin up support.
"We have learned that supporting a husband's decision in the care of his wife means we obviously "have it in for" a woman we've never met. "
Why the hell else would you be for it unless you desired the same power Michael Shiavo has?
"We've learned that obviously no one would ever themselves want to be taken off life support, but would rather live in a vegetative state for the rest of their lives. That must explain the boom in business for attorneys being asked to draft advance directives and living wills stating exactly to the contrary."
No. Most people agree that if there is total brain death, then fine- let them go. But we simply cannot be sure of what Terri's status was. People with severe brain damage can and have been at least somewhat rehabilitated. Terri never even had a chance to be rehabilitated!
Look, my Mother's cousin had a brother with severe, and I do mean severe brain damage. He was born in the early 1940's. But that child was a Godsend to the family. Kenny (the boy) taught them the vaule of kindness, tolerance, patience. He made them happy and who is to say that he himself did not feel or understand some amount of happiness- but we worry that in our modern society Kenny would've been killed off as "undesireable".
"We've learned that apparently conservatives trust their party enough to say "hey this is only one instance, it won't be a precedent, there won't be any further intrusion on someone's private medical decisions," while constantly decrying the "slippery slope" in even the most minute changes gun control or other such laws."
Again- even if you are right- Terri deserved to die so that we wouldn't have to face the government intruding into our lives?
"We've learned that when you get called out for comparing someone to Nazis, you have to turn it around and act like we're the ones whose arguments were torn "to shreds." Get serious. You were unable to engage in a reasoned debate without slinging invectives and without a sound logical basis for your reasoning. I don't have a problem with most of the people who wanted to see Terri live. They were arguing out of true, deeply held convictions. I have a problem with politicians using an issue in such a hypocritical way. I have a problem with diagnosing someone through video tape. I have a problem with second-guessing 15 years of medical opinions and years of court decisions, but then not really doing anything that would truly save Terri. I don't begrudge people their own opinions."
Sure you do. We all begrude people of their opinions. I sure as hell begrudge communists of their opinions- I sure as hell begrudge terrorists of their opinions.
"We have learned apparently that "a minimum wage nurse" would obviously only be worried about her job and would NEVER seek the limelight or a book deal or exclusive interview that would bring in more money than that lost job."
Huh. Libs care about the working class until they disagree with them, I guess.
"BTW did you mean mortality or mentality in your second to last paragraph of your second post? Either way, I assure you that I have a sense of both. In fact, we've discussed this issue at length, and husband knows my wishes with regard to situations such as these, just as I know his. So neither of us is too scared about the possibility of a car wreck or any other disaster, because we love each other and have faith that the other will carry out our wishes."
Fine. Good. Great for you. Not so great for others, though. Not so good for Terri.
"What exactly were you getting at when you said I was going to law school and had the same beliefs as my husband? I'm pretty sure he knows that, but funnily enough we often have the same beliefs for different reasons. And one of our passions is having reasoned and intelligent conversations with each other about current topics of interest, quantum physics, or whatever the hell else we find interesting at the time. We both know each other better than anyone else in our lives, we know each others wishes, and we sleep VERY soundly at night.
The Hippy's Wife"
Again. Fine. But just remember that your philosophy, that some life is not worth living, is going to come back to bite you or your children or your children's children on the ass someday.